Your insulating midlayer is a key element of your backpacking setup, and infrequently is there a time when you need to hit the path with out an insulation layer wedged in your pack. Listed below are our high picks for the very best down jackets for backpacking from our gear overview crew, editors, and writers, in addition to our ideas for selecting and caring for a down jacket for backpacking. We thought-about options like weight, heat, supplies, and fill energy to determine top-performing midlayers for each kind of hiker.
Finest Down Jackets for Backpacking: Fast Navigation
Finest Down Jackets for Backpacking: FAQs
Down vs. Artificial Jackets for Backpacking
Insulated jackets, generally referred to as puffies, are often stuffed with both pure goose or duck down or with some type of artificial polyester insulation. Each have their professionals and cons. Down is rather more costly than artificial fill and doesn’t retain loft when it will get moist. Nevertheless, it’s loftier on common than artificial fill, has a greater warmth-to-weight ratio, and is extremely compressible.
Select a down puffy if you happen to’re making an attempt to go ultralight and need superior heat and next-to-skin softness for a fraction of the majority.
Select artificial if you happen to’re on a funds or anticipate needing your jacket rather a lot in moist situations.
Selecting a Down Jacket for Backpacking
Past a couple of fundamental suggestions (listed under), your down jacket selection is as much as private desire. For match, purpose for a slim-to-medium type to avoid wasting weight and bulk. This middle-ground sizing permits the jacket to be layered over base layers in addition to underneath rain gear.
So far as fill weight goes, think about if you happen to run heat or chilly, and the climates you’ll be mountain climbing by way of. Will you be spending a number of nights camped within the alpine zone? Mountain climbing by way of chilly shoulder seasons? Go for a heftier choice. You may at all times ship it again or commerce it out if it’s an excessive amount of.
Keep in mind that you’ll often be mountain climbing on this layer, so it ought to enable freedom of motion with out being too cumbersome and leaving extra air area to warmth up. Preserve sturdiness in thoughts as nicely. If that is your thru-hiking puffy, you’ll need the insulation and face cloth to have some safety towards dampness, in addition to some stage of abrasion resistance.
The Finest Approach to Look after Your Down Jacket
This layer will spend quite a lot of time smushed into your pack. Take it out of your pack throughout breaks or on city days, shake it out, and let it air dry within the solar. It will assist hold the insulation lofted (sustaining insulating properties) and stop clumping.
Launder it a minimum of as soon as per season with down wash in a front-loading washer (the agitators of top-loading machines don’t at all times play good with delicate gear), then tumble dry on the bottom setting with a couple of tennis balls to re-loft the down.
Some down jackets have a sturdy water repellent (DWR) coating on the shell cloth, which helps shield the insulation from moisture. This coating will put on off over time, however you should utilize an after-market therapy to re-up the jacket’s DWR coating.
Keep away from sweating in your down jacket or carrying it with out a minimum of one layer of clothes between it and your pores and skin, as physique oils can cut back loft over time. Down doesn’t like getting moist–it makes it clump—so hold your jacket in a water-resistant bag inside your pack throughout rainstorms.
Price range-Pleasant Down Backpacking Jacket Suggestions
Why are down jackets so soul-crushingly costly?
You may learn extra about our number-one funds down puffy choose under (spoiler alert, it’s the Decathlon Forclaz Trek 100), however our listing positively skews towards costlier/higher-end puffies.
It’s an inventory of the very best down jackets in the marketplace, and we predict our picks actually are the cream of the crop — however for many who don’t want the cream of the crop, only a half-decent puffy to maintain them from freezing throughout their thru-hike, listed below are a couple of extra funds suggestions. Bide your time and store the gross sales for even higher costs.
Additionally, try our listing of the very best artificial jackets for backpacking; artificial insulation is far cheaper than down, however it’s additionally heavier.
- REI Co-op 650 Down Jacket Males’s | Ladies’s
- Costco down jackets
- Costco often shares name-brand down puffies for mind-boggling costs (typically lower than $50); can’t predict what they’ll have and when, however if in case you have a membership it’s value keeping track of their on-line stock
- Uniqlo Extremely Lite Down Parka Males’s | Ladies’s
- Eddie Bauer Cirruslite Down Jacket Males’s | Ladies’s
Options to Look For within the Finest Down Jackets for Backpacking
These are merely tips however ought to slender down a fairly packed discipline.
Weight: Underneath 14 ounces.
Fill energy: Not less than 750 fill.
P.c fill: Weight of down divided by weight of whole garment = p.c fill. The upper the higher.
Remedy: Handled down could shield your insulation, as will a DWR-treated shell. Completely different manufacturers have various names for his or her therapy for each insulation and materials. Nevertheless, some really feel that treating down doesn’t enhance its efficiency sufficient to be value it.
Pockets: Ought to be positioned excessive sufficient to be accessible underneath a hip belt. Zippered aspect pockets are greatest; a chest pocket doesn’t damage both.
Hood: Optionally available, however a hood is good because it prevents drafts from blowing down the again of your neck. Will increase heat, weight, and value.
Ethics and sustainability: Search for recycled supplies within the shell cloth, PFC-free DWR remedies, and Accountable Down Normal (RDS)-certified down.
Listed below are our favourite down jackets for the yr, particularly for backpackers. They’ve a wide range of suits, fill powers, and options, however are all light-weight, heat, and packable for lengthy treks.
-Maggie Slepian
Finest Down Jackets for Backpacking of 2024
Feathered Pals Eos Males’s | Ladies’s (Finest Made-in-USA Down Jacket)
Finest down jackets for backpacking: Feathered Pals Eos.
MSRP: $409
Complete Weight: 10.8 ounces males’s | 10 ounces girls’s
Fill Weight: 4 ounces males’s | 3.7 ounces girls’s
P.c Fill: 37 p.c males’s | 37 p.c girls’s
Fill: 900-plus-fill goose down
Dimension vary: XS – XXL
This mild, tremendous packable jacket from the Seattle-based firm is as versatile because it will get. It will probably layer over or underneath, is filled with insanely lofted 900-fill down, and is made in Canada and the US. The match is slimmer than others on this listing, so hold that in thoughts when determining sizing. It really works nicely as an lively layer and doesn’t really feel cumbersome underneath a pack.
We’ve lengthy needed to see a chest pocket or an internal pocket on the Eos, and in 2022 Feathered Pals delivered with the addition of each a chest pocket and an adjustable drawstring element on the jacket’s deep hood. These updates, mixed with sturdy Pertex Quantum face cloth and three.7 ounces of premium-quality down, give this jacket high marks. –Editors
Observe: The Eos is incessantly out of inventory, so if you happen to’re wanting so as to add this to your assortment, simply join the notification.
Supplies and Options
Feathered Pals is legendary for considerate designs, premium supplies, and excellent consideration to element. The Eos isn’t any exception. 3.7 ounces of extra-fluffy 900+ fill down give this jacket loads of loft and heat, whereas the windproof, 20D Pertex Quantum nylon exterior supplies sturdy safety and water resistance because of a DWR end.
Not like most jackets, the Eos makes use of Lycra, reasonably than elastic, to seal out drafts on the cuff. The jacket additionally options an adjustable hood and hem and two zippered hand pockets. As of final winter, the Eos additionally has a helpful (and really cunningly hid) zippered chest pocket.
Professionals: Excessive-quality down; deep, adjustable hood; heat; windproof; chest pocket; made within the USA.
Cons: Ceaselessly bought out; costly; slim match makes layering powerful.
For the same made-in-US ultralight down jacket, try the Western Mountaineering Flash hooded down jacket.
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Montbell Superior Down Parka Males’s | Ladies’s (Finest Worth Ultralight Down Jacket)
Finest down jackets for backpacking: Montbell Superior.
MSRP: $249
Weight: 8.6 ounces males’s | 7.3 ounces girls’s
Fill Weight: 2.5 ounces males’s | 1.9 ounces girls’s
P.c Fill: 29 p.c males’s | 26 p.c girls’s
Fill: 800-fill down
Dimension vary: S – XL
The Montbell Superior Down Parka is likely one of the greatest values for a down jacket—$249 for an 800 fill-power down jacket with hood and pockets that weighs 7.3 oz. Principally, it’s the Ghost Whisperer, however greater than $100 cheaper. The sq. baffles hold the down in place, and the excessive collar protects from drafts. I’ve additionally had the Montbell Plasma Jacket, which is lighter and costlier, however the Superior Down Parka is extra versatile. –Megan McGowan
Supplies and Options
Two-and-a-half ounces of 800-fill down and ultralight 10D ripstop nylon shell cloth hold the load down within the Superior Down Parka. The quilting sample stops down migration in its tracks, however we’re leery of all these additional seams, which might create chilly spots and likewise signify potential future failure factors. The jacket options an adjustable hood and hem, elastic cuffs, and two zippered aspect pockets.
Professionals: Nice value for the load and high quality; quilting functionally eliminates down migration.
Cons: A lot of sewn-through seams cut back heat and sturdiness; not a complete lot of insulation (functionally restricted to gentle situations).
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Arc’teryx Cerium Hoody Males’s | Ladies’s (Finest Down/Artificial Hybrid)
Finest down jackets for backpacking: Arc’teryx Cerium.
MSRP: $400
Weight: 11.8 ounces males’s | 10.2 ounces girls’s
Fill Weight (Down)*: 4 ounces males’s | 3.2 ounces girls’s
Fill: 850-fill goose down/Coreloft polyester fibers
Dimension vary: XS – XXXL males’s | XXS – XXL girls’s
*Complete fill weight (together with artificial) not reported
Our reviewer initially nominated the Arc’teryx Cerium SL for this listing after thru-hiking the PCT with it. Sadly, that jacket is now not broadly accessible, however we nonetheless advocate that you simply try the marginally heavier (however nonetheless superior) Cerium. “It makes use of Down Composite Mapping, which locations artificial insulation within the “excessive use” areas (cuffs, armpits, high of the shoulders, and facial space),” wrote Carl Stanfield of the Cerium SL in 2021. “All over the place else makes use of 850 fill-power goose down, which does a strong job protecting you heat out on the path.”
The beefed-up Cerium nonetheless makes use of Down Composite mapping and retains the load affordable at 11.8 ounces for a males’s medium whereas that includes a extra sturdy 15D shell cloth.
Supplies and Options
850-fill goose down provides the majority of this jacket’s insulation, however Arc’teryx made the ingenious transfer to make use of their in-house artificial Coreloft insulation within the armpits, cuffs, and hood—areas which are extremely susceptible to moisture. The Cerium was upgraded to a stronger 15D ripstop nylon shell, which is stronger than the previous 10D mannequin. Sure, this jacket is pricey, however it’s surprisingly hardy—simply you’ll want to shield it from snags.
The shell has a DWR therapy to guard it from mild moisture, whereas the nylon liner feels buttery-soft towards your pores and skin. The adjustable storm hood snugs down nicely and has higher protection than most, whereas elastic cuffs and an adjustable hem additional reduce down on drafts. The Cerium packs down right into a child stuff sack that comes with the jacket. The jacket has two zippered hand pockets.
For a loftier / extra sturdy (however considerably heavier) model of this jacket, try the 18-ounce Arc’teryx Thorium.
Professionals: Areas of artificial fill shield towards moisture harm; very light-weight and packable; nice hood.
Cons: Costly; thinner shell cloth could be liable to snagging.
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Patagonia Down Sweater Hoodie Males’s | Ladies’s (Finest City-to-Path Jacket)
Finest down jackets for backpacking: Patagonia Down Sweater Hoodie.
MSRP: $329
Weight: 14.8 ounces males’s | 12.1 ounces girls’s
Fill Weight: 5.4 ounces males’s | 4 ounces girls’s
P.c Fill: 36 p.c males’s | 33 p.c girls’s
Fill: 800-fill goose down
Dimension vary: XS – XXXL males’s | XXS – XXL girls’s
“I wore the Patagonia Down Sweater Hoodie on the PCT in 2017, and all through quite a few journeys since then. I’ve had it for a number of years, and it nonetheless retains me heat. It’s sturdy, fairly waterproof, and I want a jacket with a hood. I began the path with a Patagonia Nano Puff and upgraded to this sweater mannequin on path. I additionally respect that Patagonia has responsibly sourced down and highlights sustainability.” – Alex Cremer
Supplies and Options
If sustainability is a main concern for you, Patagonia is the way in which to go. Their Down Sweater options 800-fill, RDS-certified, traceable goose down and a recycled, windproof 20D ripstop polyester shell with reasonable water resistance by way of a DWR therapy.
Higher but, the jacket now accommodates PFC-free DWR, and a company-wide shift signifies that the entire firm’s water-repellant merchandise might be PFC-free by 2024 (PFCs are a category of extremely persistent, poisonous chemical substances generally present in DWR).
The jacket has all the standard options you’d hope for in a puffy, together with two zippered hand pockets, elastic cuffs, and an adjustable hood and hem. It’s additionally a terrific selection for hikers who need type factors that depend with the final inhabitants and never simply fellow hiker trash.
Professionals: Recycled/responsibly sourced supplies; no PFCs; windproof shell enhances heat; ripstop polyester shell has extra native water resistance than nylon.
Cons: Heavy; can really feel under-stuffed; hood is simply one-way adjustable.
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Rab Microlight Alpine Males’s | Ladies’s (Finest for Alpine Situations)
Finest down jackets for backpacking: Rab Microlight Alpine.
MSRP: $295
Weight: 16.5 ounces males’s | 14.6 ounces girls’s
Fill Weight: 5 ounces males’s | 5.1 ounces girls’s
P.c Fill: 30 p.c males’s | 35 p.c girls’s
Fill: 700-fill goose down
Dimension vary: XS – XXL
All through the years, Rab has persistently constructed sturdy, modern attire with operate and slot in thoughts. The Rab Microlight Alpine is a mid-fit layer filled with ethically sourced down and slender baffles.
This jacket suits nicely both as a mid-layer or by itself, and with supposed use for alpine climbs, it packs down small and has a deep hood. It has a windproof and waterproof face cloth (Pertex Quantum) and hydrophobic goose down, making it one of many extra protected jackets on the listing, very best for hikers who is perhaps heading into questionable situations. –Editors
Supplies and Options
700-fill goose down is much from the loftiest on this listing, however it retains the worth affordable, and a beneficiant 5 ounces of fill ensures that this jacket has loads of loft. The shell is fabricated from sturdy (by ultralight requirements) 30D Pertex Quantum ripstop nylon, which is windproof and, aided by a DWR therapy, waterproof. Even when moisture does penetrate in harsh climate situations, the Microlight’s hydrophobic down received’t be broken and can nonetheless retain partial loft.
An in depth-fitting collar, adjustable wire-brimmed hood and hem, and elastic cuffs maximize the heat of this jacket. Along with two zippered hand pockets, the Microlight can also be the one jacket on this listing to characteristic a zippered chest pocket.
The latest replace to this jacket noticed a redesigned baffle system and a lift in sustainability. Whereas the earlier model of the Microlight featured a recycled internal lining, the latest model ups the ante with recycled outer shell cloth and recycled internal lining, too.
Professionals: Very heat; cheap for the quantity of insulation it supplies; hydrophobic down; windproof, sturdy 30D shell; chest pocket; totally recycled shell, insulation, and lining; brimmed hood.
Cons: Heavy; hotter than most thru-hikers will want; variety of baffles appears extreme for the quantity of fill.
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Montbell Plasma 1000 Alpine Down Parka Males’s | Ladies’s (Most Revolutionary Baffle Design)
Finest down jackets for backpacking: Montbell Plasma 1000 Alpine.
MSRP: $479
Weight: 8.4 ounces males’s | 7.9 ounces girls’s
Fill Weight: 3.4 ounces males’s | 3 ounces girls’s
P.c Fill: 40 p.c males’s | 38 p.c girls’s
Fill: 1,000-fill down
Dimension vary: S – XL
Merely put, the Montbell Plasma 1000 Alpine Down Parka is the very best down jacket I’ve ever examined. It makes use of 1,000 fill-power down, which is borderline unparalleled, weighing in at simply 8.4 ounces. It’s lots heat for three-season backpacking. And for being made with such ultralight supplies, is surprisingly sturdy. Mine has seen over 3,500 miles of path and remains to be going sturdy. I’ll say it once more: it’s the very best down jacket I’ve ever examined. –Zach Davis
Learn our overview of the Montbell Plasma 1000 down jacket.
Supplies and Options
Montbell isn’t the one firm that makes use of a discontinuous quilting sample reasonably than customary tube-shaped baffle chambers, however they execute it fairly darn nicely: their distinctive quilting disrupts down migration whereas minimizing the variety of sewn-through seams.
Extremely-premium 1000-fill down is tough to come back by and boasts the very best warmth-to-weight ratio round. Ultralight, DWR-treated 7D ripstop nylon shell cloth seals the deal, bringing this jacket in at a featherlight 8.4 ounces for the lads’s model and seven.9 for the ladies’s.
Montbell additionally makes an nearly unbelievably mild summerweight model of the Plasma 1000 that weighs a scant 4.9 ounces. Nevertheless, we love the Plasma 1000 Alpine for its beneficiant 3.4 ounces of stuffing (greater than 40 p.c of the jacket’s whole weight, as Montbell factors out). This added insulation will serve thru-hikers higher throughout a spread of three-season situations. An adjustable hood and hem, elastic cuffs, and two zippered hand pockets maximize the heat and performance of this jacket.
Professionals: Excellent warmth-to-weight ratio; very heat; quilting sample designed to reduce down migration; good longevity if you happen to shield it.
Cons: Costly; very skinny shell cloth will have to be babied; restricted dimension vary.
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Decathlon Forclaz Trek 100 Down Jacket Males’s | Ladies’s (Finest Price range Down Jacket)
Finest down jackets for backpacking: Decathlon Forclaz Trek 100
MSRP: $100
Weight: 10.4 ounces males’s giant | 9.8 ounces girls’s medium
Fill Weight: 3.1 ounces males’s | 3.1 ounces girls’s
P.c Fill: 30 p.c males’s | 32 p.c girls’s
Fill: 800-fill down
Dimension vary: S – XXXL males’s | XS – XXL girls’s
In case you’re on a funds, it doesn’t get higher than the Trek 100. It prices a fraction of the worth of most down jackets, but the load, supplies, and options are on par with the very best of them. It might not be as sturdy as a top-shelf jacket, however it ought to be capable to survive a thru-hike if you happen to’re cautious with it.
Even amongst funds choices, this jacket stands out: it’s cheaper and lighter than the REI Co-op 650 Down Jacket 2.0, a staple amongst budget-conscious hikers. It additionally weighs lower than the similarly-priced Uniqlo Down Parka and provides extra transparency on the product web page concerning supplies and design, which, when a product appears too good to be true, helps to encourage some much-needed confidence. –Editors
Supplies and Options
Decathlon provides this jacket with a beneficiant 3.1 ounces of RDS-certified 800-fill duck down sealed inside a 15D, DWR-treated nylon taffeta shell. The Trek 100’s insulation accommodates 85 p.c down plumes and 15 p.c feathers, higher than the federal minimal customary of a minimum of 75 p.c down however under the 90 p.c threshold set out by higher-end down jackets.
The jacket has two zippered pockets and an adjustable hem, however it lacks elastic cuffs or a drawcord adjustment for the hood. Decathlon says this jacket runs small, so think about sizing as much as be sure you have loads of room for layers beneath.
Professionals: Cheap; reasonably light-weight; prime quality down.
Cons: Heavy; some customers complain about lack of loft in arms; nylon taffeta not as sturdy as ripstop; no elastic cuffs or adjustable hood.
We’ve to acknowledge that the jackets on this listing are nearly all very costly. Take a look at these further suggestions for funds puffies.
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Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer UL Males’s | Ladies’s (Finest Light-weight Down Jacket)
Finest down jackets for backpacking: Mountain Hardwear Ghost Whisperer UL.
MSRP: $420
Weight: 7.1 ounces males’s giant | 6 ounces girls’s small
Fill Weight: 2.5 ounces males’s | 1.9 ounces girls’s
P.c Fill: 35 p.c males’s | 32 p.c girls’s
Fill: 1000-fill down
Dimension vary: S – XXL males’s | XS – XL girls’s
The Ghost Whisperer has lengthy been a thru-hiker favourite and a dominant participant within the ultralight puffy area. The Ghost Whisperer UL’s gotten even lighter because of ultra-thin shell materials and 1000-fill down insulation. Imagine it or not, this isn’t truly the lightest down jacket on the market in absolute phrases, however we think about it the lightest jacket that’s nonetheless purposeful throughout a broad vary of three-season situations. -Editors
Supplies and Options
The Ghost Whisperer UL is almost 2 ounces lighter and $50 costlier than its sibling, the Ghost Whisperer/2. That distinction is completely all the way down to supplies: the UL model makes use of 2.5 ounces of 1000-fill down and 5D ripstop nylon for the shell cloth (the thinnest materials on this listing), whereas the Ghost Whisperer/2 makes use of three ounces of 800-fill down and a heavier 10D shell cloth.
It’s value noting that the UL makes use of virgin supplies within the shell cloth, whereas the two makes use of extra sustainable recycled supplies. Each jackets characteristic the identical DWR therapy on the face cloth, an elastic hood and cuffs (that means the hood is comfortable, however it isn’t adjustable, not like most jackets on this listing), two zippered hand pockets, and a drawcord-adjustable hem.
Professionals: Lightest jacket on this listing; heat sufficient for reasonable three-season situations; totally featured regardless of low weight.
Cons: Costly; makes use of virgin supplies (not like common Ghost Whisperer/2); most likely extreme baffles; 5D cloth is extraordinarily skinny and have to be babied; restricted dimension vary.
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Timmermade SUL .75 Down Sweater | Finest Tremendous Ultralight Down Jacket
Finest down jackets for backpacking: Timmermade SUL .75.
MSRP: $299
Weight: 4.4 ounces (unisex)
Fill weight: 1.8 ounces (unisex)
P.c Fill: 45 p.c
Fill: 900-fill Hyperdry goose down
Dimension vary: XS – XL (or contact Timmermade for customized sizing)
Regardless of its scant 4.4-ounce whole weight (!!), Dan Timmerman estimates on his web site that his Timmermade SUL .75 pullover puffy will hold most individuals heat all the way down to freezing whereas inactive, “however it’s most likely getting uncomfortable for most individuals within the 30s (Fahrenheit).” The sweater boasts a beneficiant fill ratio: insulation accounts for a strong 45 p.c of the sweater’s whole weight. In addition to being insanely mild, the SUL sweater can also be customizable for many who need a extra tailor-made match.
Observe that there are hotter variations of this puffy. The SUL 1.1 weighs 5.6 ounces, contains 51 p.c down, and is estimated to be comfy all the way down to freezing—very best for many three-season situations. In the meantime, the four-season SUL 1.5 weighs 6.1 ounces, contains a whopping 61 p.c down, and will hold the typical human heat to under freezing. -Editors
Supplies and Options
As Timmerman factors out on the web site, this can be a sweater within the truest sense: no zippers, pockets, or liners so as to add weight to this environment friendly, streamlined garment. It’s simply premium waterproof down encased in a easy nylon shell with as few seams as doable.
Broad, four-inch baffle chambers decrease sewn-through seams (aka chilly spots) all through the garment, with the down lofting to 0.75 inches in between. You may customise each side of the match, so Timmerman recommends requesting extra-long sleeves to interchange the hand-warming impact of pockets if this characteristic is necessary to you.
The sweater’s simplicity additionally retains the worth down; $299 is some huge cash, however it’s nonetheless one of many extra reasonably priced puffies on this listing whereas additionally being among the many warmest. Remember that, like with most small, made-to-order firms, you’ll most likely face lengthy wait instances to get your puffy (and/or you might end up on a waitlist).
Professionals: Wonderful warmth-to-weight ratio; reasonably priced; customizable; easy; elective hood; detachable neck and hemline cinches
Cons: No zipper or pockets; lengthy lead instances
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Associated
Why must you belief us?
As a result of we’re so extremely clever, in fact! Enticing, too. (To not point out extraordinarily humble).
But when that isn’t sufficient to impress you, there’s additionally the truth that everybody who contributed to this text is an skilled thru-hiker with hundreds of on-trail miles underneath their belt. We’re gear nerds who love placing our tools to the check on trails lengthy and quick, and we’ve examined dozens of puffies in pursuit of cozier backcountry days.
Furthermore, we do our greatest to remain plugged into the path group’s gear preferences (we’re positively these obnoxious individuals on path who at all times need to know what everybody else is packing). Which means our picks for the very best down jackets for backpacking aren’t simply our opinions. They’re primarily based on years of suggestions from the thru-hiking group.
To all you individuals within the feedback part: we’re listening to you too. Because of everybody who commented on the listing. We’ve integrated a lot of your recommendations and requests within the listing.
Competence and backpacking proficiency personified.
Rachel Shoemaker and Alexander “GPS” Brown contributed to this listing.
Featured picture: Graphic design by Chris Helm.
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